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Main Board Forums => Rubber Room => Topic started by: manhammer on December 20, 2013, 04:59:09 PM



Title: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: manhammer on December 20, 2013, 04:59:09 PM
...it made watching the awkward, shirtless, chubby, middle aged women dancing seem rhythmic. Please someone tell me why some of you fatties thought it was cool to take off your shirts, please.   I never saw so many ill fitting Cross Your Heart bras before or since.

Bonus Commandment: Thou shall leave thee pit stained shirt on. For thee breast are an abomination.

 Due to my surreal childhood in Community Chapel I came here looking for answers. All I have found is a collection of tea party rants.  I now have a better understanding of how you people exposed children to beatings, sex abuse, extreme mental abuse and murder. Where are the normal people? Or is this what is left of the cult members who didn't die of suicide or drug overdose?

 It appears by the guest counter Christmas Eve is the day we all converge upon this lost message board to find that pedophile Sunday School teacher.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Mill on December 29, 2013, 02:09:37 AM
Not sure if you (manhammer) will ever be back here to read this or not.

The holidays though a time of merriment and joy for some is actually a very difficult time for many.  The smells, the songs and sounds, the atmosphere bustling with holiday rush and feverish preparations all cause many of us to rush down memory lane whether we are willing companions or not.  Memories some poignant, some diffused seep in of families, parents, siblings, friends, dwellings, situations, relations, events and general atmospheres of previous existence.  It can be a powerful cocktail.  My guess based on the day of the posting is that you were at that time feeling such things were reflecting on your life.  On the evening of Friday the week before Christmas you were perhaps thinking about your plans for the following week and about things past.  It sounds like you have experienced loss.  Maybe of siblings, friends and/or family cohesiveness, sanity and probably of trust in leaders.

Perhaps your mind ponders what might have been, what could have been if...but now it seems that Hupty Dumpty is broken as it were and there is simply no way to put things back together again.  Though I wish that I could, I cannot fix these shattering events of the past nor your present situation so sadly I may not be of much help.  However, I will give you what I have though in the scope of things, it is not much.

I'm so very very sorry for your pain and the shattering of your life and the lives of those around you that you have experienced.  It was not just and you did not deserve that.  If you were personally molested or taken advantage of by someone in a position of trust or authority or by anyone else I'm so very very sorry and I weep for you that you were injured in this way.  What was done was very wrong and there is no justification for it and there will be a day when they will have to give an account for their behavior.

I can understand that you are looking for answers.  In many ways, we all are and even in a much broader scope than CCBTC.  Who am I?  What is this about?  Why?  In some circles this may be called "the human condition".  I wish that I had a profound answer but I don't.  However, I do know that because you exist, there is a creator and therefore a purpose.  Why so much heartache and pain?  I don't know but I do know that you are extremely valuable and one of a kind.  You have the spirit of God in you and thus you have life and you can breath and reason and I do believe that God sees everything and that He is intimately in tune with you based on Jesus' words that every hair on your head in numbered.  This is actually a very profound statement that Jesus spoke to these people.  It says that God is extremely in tune with each one of us even though we do not normally aware of it.  It means that He saw and He understands and He cares.

This may seem too "preachy" and cliché but I believe that these are some very profound truths about God our Father that we can all benefit from grasping on a deeper level.

I will pray for you tonight that you will be lead by God and that you will be healed.

With much care,

-Mill







Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Nomad on January 11, 2014, 02:48:21 PM
Manhammer - What are you talking about? 

I was at the Chapel during it's connection phase.  I personally never danced with my shirt off, nor did I observe anyone else dance shirtless, or blouse-less.  I did not participate as a "mega-connection" so did not observe what may have occurred in those few "special sessions" reserved for "mega's" but I did not hear anything about dancing undressed.

Where did you get your mis-information?


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Admin on January 11, 2014, 10:43:13 PM
I heard through an eye witness of some very debauched activities that would make shirtless, or blouse-less for that matter, dancing seem innocent in comparison. These weren't happening in the public venues but in "get togethers" for the more spiritually enlightened.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: manhammer on January 15, 2014, 08:48:03 PM
Really, misinformation?
On numerous occasions I myself witnessed, desperate shirtless women prancing before God.
This was not in a private venue, it in plain site for all the children to see.  Maybe you were too busy making out with some married Christian jihadist.

Sorry, you missed the hot BBW action.

Here are some other things you may have missed or have blocked from your little mind.

High school Teachers and their teen connections. Thank God I was an ugly kid.
Fake leg growth healings. Who know that one leg being longer than the other was such a common medical condition.
Gay dudes french kissing, slow dancing and grasping each others ass. Yes in public. Wonder if they got married.
The first time I caught someone (other than the parents) having sex, was at church. This was not in public. It took place in the spanking rooms. Worst hide and go seek game, EVER! You would think people would take a moment to lock the doors, but when God tells you to ####, you better listen.
How about over the top demon exorcisms.  What was with the snotty noses? Did someone forget to rebuke the demon of tissue paper.
As for the orgy room, E250. I was to far to scared to venture to that building. In the sixth grade,we held our heads in shame if someone said they saw our mother going over there.

Mill, I was not need of solace, nor was I molested or raped. Save your payers for Nomad, that ########### needs them.

Nomad, What are you taking about?  So you did not participate in mega-connections, so giving handjobs and BJs was as far as you would go for the Lord. We all know, it's not a "mega" if you don't swallow.


#### Edited By G. ####





Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Helen on January 15, 2014, 09:00:02 PM
manhammer,

Obviously there were many of us there who were truly oblivious to some of the worst that happened there at the Chapel.  I was not married while I was at the Chapel, but I was spared a lot of the sexual sins that were happening so indiscreetly there.  Since I personally know Nomad though, I have to say that you couldn't be more wrong about this person.  There were many of us there who truly desired God and prevented that kind of sin from happening to us. 

I was at the Chapel for 10 years and I was saving myself for my future husband and there is no way I was going to waste it on another woman's husband there. 

That said, I am so sorry you were a witness to such irresponsibility, especially at such a formative age.  I pray God's intervention in your life with the holiest of intents.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Admin on January 15, 2014, 09:30:59 PM
Manhammer - you are free to vent all you want. Many many have including myself. I really do sympathize more than you could possibly know but keep it a little cleaner on some of the words. I'm not into heavy handed admin activity but I do try and keep the sharp edges on some language in check.

I left when the connections barely started so I didn't witness things firsthand. I did get earfuls from one of my kids that was there. Years later one of the inside of the inside click gave me blow by blow ( no pun intended ) accounts of numerous "get togethers" he was at and I really wish I had never heard much of what was relayed to me. We rarely hear about such depravity in the non-church world much less in a group claiming to have an inside track on being the bride of Christ. When hell is unleashed, as it was back then, there is little those who embrace it won't do apparently.



Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: manhammer on January 15, 2014, 09:39:00 PM
Dear Helen,
God has intervened in my life. He has sent my forward in a quest to find and persecute the guilty.
As for the lies Ms. Nomad spouts forth, The lord thy father will come down upon her with a great vengeance. Thumbs up, on being a real life 40 year virgin.(That must have been hard, to quote the 40 Year Old Virgin, "Hurtin' for a squirtin') How did you explain to your suitors that I'm saving myself for marriage but this one time I was in sex cult for like a decade or so... Awkward.  
So in conclusion, I will double pray for you.

Sorry El Gordo...
Not trying to offend with anyone with my language. But some people need to be more honest about what they saw and did.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Admin on January 15, 2014, 10:40:39 PM
You are right about the honesty part. I have seen many come and go here for roughly 16 years. I think many came to a place of facing the truth, digesting it well and moved on. Others seem to cling to things I can only scratch my head over. One thing I have concluded and Helen touched on it is that there are as many outlooks on that tine as there are people. I believe many were somehow spared being exposed to the most debauched happenings and have expressed they were shocked to find out about them later, after the fall. I don't believe they are liars. It was hard enough being an adult but being a kid with no choices must have been terrible.

By the way, you have "Ms. Nomad" pegged wrong in more ways than one.  ;D


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Helen on January 15, 2014, 11:02:30 PM
Hi manhammer,

I appreciate your prayers.  Like Gordy, I too have absolutely no problems with those who need to vent about the Chapel.  Even the language doesn't offend me, because I understand that even that can't express the anguish we experienced because of the Chapel.  

I was not a 40 year old virgin.  Far from it!  I did not commit my life to the Lord till I was 25 years of age and God gave my body back to me.  It was 13 years later that I met my husband at my brother's church and I know now he was the one God was saving me for.  We waited for marriage to share physical intimacy and this was the level of commitment God had called me to.  I wanted a holy relationship more than anything.  It has been 22 years of marriage bliss in this area and I believe my life is a testimony of God's strength to take a person such as me and enable me to be sanctified in Him.  People who are happy in God and how He is calling them to walk with God don't have to 'hurt for a squirt'.  I was ecstatic to experience purity.  Those who have been forgiven much, love much and those who are forgiven little, love little (Luke 7:47)  God had forgiven much in my past life and I loved Him for it!

How did my husband respond to my past at the Chapel?  He never knew the Chapel and unless a person experiences such a disaster, it is very hard to convey the depth of despair we came to, but just the same; the Chapel has made a huge impact on him to find such a thing could happen in the church.  

I am one who was spared a lot of the debauched connection business at that time and I attended the Chapel from the inception of connections till about 1/2 year after the church split.  I never went to E250 and I avoided being alone with another person's spouse.  The few men that tried to connect with me were completely appropriate with me and I never had to correct their behavior.  

It must have been that some adults were totally insensitive to the possible watching eyes of our young ones and they fell victim to this type of mental assault.  They were too busy hiding it from some of us adults.  

I for one have never considered this to be neglect on my part, but I have to say now; that as an adult at that time at the Chapel, I do bear part of the responsibility of not making my fellow adults accountable for their ungodly actions.  

As a woman at the Chapel, I felt too squelched by the control the men exercised in our church and I will never allow myself to be controlled in this manner again.  I felt intimidated to sympathize with the church government's decision that allowed the teaching of that doctrine and today I wish I had gone on strike and stood in front of the church with a huge picket sign expressing my overwhelming disapproval.  

I am truly sorry for my part in allowing the Chapel to sin against it's people and own up to you your right to seek a venue where you can express just how much it affected you.  


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Nomad on January 16, 2014, 11:06:53 PM
Manhammer,

I don't know what you saw, but I not once witnessed anyone undressed at church.  I never participated in any kind of overt sexual activity, and never observed it.  I heard some things rumored, but never saw anything other than kissing.

As for your disturbingly graphic descriptions, perhaps this describes more about you than things that happened at Chapel.  Yes, there were some monstrous things happening in secret.  But you paint a pornographic picture far beyond what was there in the main.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: chapelchick on January 19, 2014, 11:59:38 PM
Hi Manhammer!

Welcome to the Rubber Room. I love the venting. I love the graphic descriptions. I was not there in the "end". I never witnessed the depravity that you describe but I know that you have no reason to lie. You will find a mixed bag here as some will not hear you. Nomad said that what you describe tells more about you than what may have happened or something like that. Don't take it to heart . You have certainly suffered enough. Chapel destroyed so many of our lives. If there was any good I have yet to reap the benefits of it. I ran like hell in the opposite direction. Keep venting and telling the truth. The folks on this forum have been pretty kind to me and I am also a potty mouth. We do not agree on much and I am here very very rarely. Some are still touting the crazy political views we were fed. Just had dinner with my sister tonight. We came to Chapel in 1974. Our lives were controlled by DB who is a known *********. People still follow him, go figure????  Anyway, keep talking, hunt 'em down. Take care. Chapelchick

******** edited by Gordy 1-22-14


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Admin on January 21, 2014, 06:27:35 PM
I am not aware of anyone with the initials "DB" from the Chapel that has been charged with or convicted of pedophilia. I am no fan of anyone with the initials of "DB" from the chapel but it isn't within the acceptable scope of this website to make such unsubstantiated charges. If you are aware of reliable 3rd party citations that would confirm your charges then please provide them otherwise I will edit your post within 24 hours. I understand the animosity toward much of went down there but I won't allow slander to go unchecked.

I have been a huge and obnoxious critic of those days for years and suffered my own heavy losses but I do not want anyone making such serious charges without independent solid citations to back them up here. I hope you understand.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: chapelchick on January 25, 2014, 01:44:16 AM
Dear Gordy,  I know that you will edit this for privacy reasons but ***** ******* gave a very profound statement about the abuse suffered by her and as she said there were many others at the hands of our dear pastor. She was 16 years old. She suffered terribly from it. So edit if you must but Don Barnett is a pedophile. Also if you research on Amazon Barbara Barnett's book there is also a comment from a girl who said that Barbara knew the abuse that was happening to young girls and wondered why Barbara never intervened. Delete if you must but it was with much pain that she revealed what she suffered and the innocence taken from her at a young age. Chapelchick

-****** -Edited by Gordy 1-26-14


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: chapelchick on January 25, 2014, 01:49:24 AM
I have misgivings about posting this but it is from DB's response which I have a link to. Sorry but it is true.
Posted by ***** ******* on 1/25/2003, 2:20 am, in reply to "letter to Don"
12.211.116.55
I was 13 when i first came to the Chapel in the early 70's. Although I am now healed,the 5 years that my life was damaged because of a deception and manipulation done in the name of "love in the name of Jesus" Horrible things that were done to me by someone that was supposed to offer sanctuary and safety from such awfull things. I find that visiting this site and seeing that some of you are so very blinded,some still holding the torch,and many unaware of the many many young girls, whos lives were damaged if not destroyed. SO now what? Here we are 30 years later.. and there are still tears. I am healed, I am free and I am whole. However, I weep at what was taken from that young girl many years ago. I forgave Don years ago, but still wonder why.Why? I have to resolve that all things are safe in my Lord's hands. He has birthed a testimony in me through these events and He has worked all things together for good! My prayer is, that if there is one who is still wounded, hurt and in need of healing, that you would find all that He has promised for your precious soul!
In His Armor!!!
*******

Edited by Gordy 1-26-14


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: chapelchick on January 25, 2014, 01:59:57 AM
This is the quote from the Amazon review of Barbara's book "The Truth Shall Set You Free"Initial post: Oct 18, 2010 12:09:31 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 18, 2010 12:11:12 PM PDT
D. Flach says:
What I can't understand from those of you who where there during the time DB was molesting us young girls, how is it that Barbara knew, and did nothing to protect me, or others!
Even while in their own home, she knew, and did nothing.
Years later I saw Barbara at her new home with her new love, and I thought " okay this is it's she'll apologize now" WRONG, still nothing.
Honestly I don't care, I'm healed from it all. What bothers me is you all who sing her praise. She was a victim as well, but she also caused many little ones to stumble. How do you make that all work?


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Admin on January 25, 2014, 10:22:54 AM
I find it a little bizarre being in the apparent position of defending a man who brought/allowed such pain, suffering and destruction to those who followed him. Believe me when I say I have no desire to defend him or anyone else that is guilty, unrepentant and continues in the debauched move of love. I have not heard a peep about COA for years now so I have no current information about the practices there.

I must still point out that as far as I know no legal charges have been brought against him by the authorities related to pedophilia. That would be public record if someone was inclined to search it out. I also am not aware of any civil suits/complaints alleging the same directed at him specifically as the one directly committing the crime. I cannot dismiss or confirm personal testimonies where I have no direct personal knowledge.

If you have misgivings about posting what you did it might be because that small still voice inside was squawking a little. I know that voice inside me and have come to have great respect for it as I have grown older because when I have ignored it I always regretted it. I had that voice squawking a lot when I first saw DB start to speak in 1977. I should have left and never looked back but such is wisdom. I will leave it stand for now but if you want it edited just ask.

I also have to consider there may be many who still need to vent and I don't want to thwart or interfere but making false charges and allegations will do nothing to deal effectively with being hurt though admittedly it may give some temporary release. Many including myself have vented on this board since 1998. Though the traffic has greatly slowed I keep it up and running just in case it can be of some value to someone at sometime but I don't want it to be a depository of false accusations against individuals.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: chapelchick on January 25, 2014, 10:54:13 PM
Dear Gordy, I have misgivings in the sense that this is very personal information given on other forums which I have no right to spread. If you would like to edit please edit out the real names. Thank you. Chapelchick


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Admin on January 26, 2014, 11:12:31 PM
I edit out the name as I am uncomfortable invading someone's privacy although the person apparently went very public previously. If they contacted me and said it was OK to leave their name I would edit it back in. If it is still posted somewhere you are free to post a link to it.

I have come to the conclusion there are only two basic types of people in this world. The first type are those that want to control or have everyone controlled and the second group are those who have no desire to do so. These two groups are in evidence every where and it doesn't take long to determine which group people belong to if you simply listen to or read their words. I avoid the first group like the plague.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: manhammer on January 27, 2014, 10:10:27 PM
Can anyone at least share the records of who funded our all night, dance party church? All the my childhood friends at the church were working class at best. Who do we have the pleasure of thanking for providing us with such a  elegant place of worship? It seems that around 1983 Mr DB must have been given a large donation to fund a massive expansion.
I also would like to know how many of the children have died and what was their cause of death.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Underdog on January 28, 2014, 09:19:12 AM
Tithes and offerings, along with an abundance of cheap and free labor.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Admin on January 28, 2014, 10:32:29 AM
There were many of volunteers which I have no issue with though he could argue why that was so. One thing I did appreciate about the financial part was there wasn't a constant plea for special tithes and offerings from the pulpit at least relative to many other churches or ministries.

There was a lawsuit from someone who received a large settlement from a horrific auto accident and gave a large portion of it to the church and later had misgivings about it. I don't recall how that ended. I remember the names involved but won't post them and would prefer nobody else does either. If someone can fill in other details please do so.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Underdog on January 28, 2014, 10:55:31 AM
Gordy, my memory, or least my perspective is a little bit different than yours.

I remember constant appeals and admonitions regarding tithes and offerings.  (Granted, we didn't have a barrage of constant special appeals for various projects.)

Tithing was taught as a requirement, and offerings on top of tithes were also a near requirement.  There was also the guilt factor of suggesting things we (the Chapel) could have done if everyone had been tithing and giving.

At one point I received a letter from the church because they didn't have a record of me tithing.  I said that I gave cash.  I received another letter saying they hadn't seen any checks from me.   >:(

The one thing that stuck in my craw a bit, was how the little people were always being told that we were to sacrifice.  Meanwhile, some leadership was living quite the nice life.  (I don't begrudge people good salaries or lifestyles they have earned, but I do resent that lifestyle being lived off the backs of others' sacrifices.)

One of the things I saw at the Chapel, and had seen in my earlier history, is that when things start going bad, the leadership was quick to blame the people.  If the people would only give more, pray more, etc., these bad things wouldn't be happening.  Guilt and manipulation.

PS: Years after I left the Chapel I attended a church that was always doing special offerings, for a new grand piano, for more chairs, etc.  It got really tiresome.  I always figured these were expenses that should have been covered by the operating budget.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Admin on January 28, 2014, 07:03:16 PM
That is different indeed! If I would have received a letter like those you described it would have been the last one they would have needed to send because I would have left. I gave liberally without regrets though the elaborate vacations/lovefests that became the norm after connections started would have caused me to hold back if I would have still been there. I had 3 kids in the school and gave more than enough to get the reduced tuition. I agreed with that policy because it wouldn't have been fair otherwise.

I was comparing the pleas for finances at the Chapel with other churches I have been in. It seems the sole reason many churches have services is to beg for money so they can afford to have more services to beg for money. Most TV ministries that have the Doo, pompadour and gold chain gang crowd running them are the same. As I recall there few services up until I left that mentioned giving from the pulpit. It was in the bulletins as one of the positions of the church. Money is important and a central issue in our lives. I run when I hear people claim they hate money or it isn't important as it is the warning sign of a looter sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.

The peer pressure was oppressive to me. I had nothing to hide or be ashamed of but I was always uncomfortable with the largely unstated but ever present expectations. If I would have been you with your experience about tithing which was stated and direct I would certainly have taken a different path.


Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: chapelchick on January 29, 2014, 11:51:17 PM
I remember the pressure to give a tithe, 10% and offering. This was to be done by check so that the church could track your giving. There were reprimands if you did not. The pressure was intense when the new sanctuary was being built. My husband and I gave 21 to 22 percent of our gross income to the church. He was in Bible college and we were always dirt poor. I had 50 dollars to buy 2 weeks of groceries at Prairie Market where you mark the prices on your food. We could not afford to shop at Safeway. I had to make sure that I did not go over because I only had a fifty dollar bill. That was to feed us both for 2 weeks, no more trips to the store. Any money "left over" was my spending money, haha.

We were admonished not to buy a house but to give the money to the church.

There were announcements in the church bulletin NOT to have home parties such as Tupperware parties because that would lead to impulsive spending and the money should go to the new sanctuary. Yet Don lived in a custom made home in Normandy Park.

So happy that everyone got to dance and slobber on each other at the expense of our young lives. I am just glad that I didn't stick around to see it all. Community Chapel to me was like the elusive vaginal orgasm. I never felt a thing. No spiritual elation, no joy. It was all fear. MY life began when I left this destructive cult and belief system behind me in the dust and ran like hell in the opposite direction.





Title: Re: Community Chapel's music was so bad...
Post by: Helen on January 30, 2014, 08:54:27 AM
I was single all my years at the Chapel and I did not suffer under any financial pressure during my 10 years there.  It took me 5 1/2 years to get my college degree, but that is because I was supporting myself and had to work a 40 hour week.  Taking more than 10 hours of classes a week was just too tiring for me, because I was also involved in a lot of volunteer ministries.  As a single person, it was very nice how the different ministries enabled me to have more fellowship with such a tight schedule. 

I was able to keep my costs at a minimum by living in the dorms all through Bible College and giving a tithe and offering was very little problem for me.  I do not remember a lot of chastisement for not giving to the church, just received the usual teaching on giving.  I was blessed that my husband came from the same kind of financial teaching and we have continued to give to the Lord in this manner.

This is not to de-value any of the other experiences shared above, but I guess the reason I mention it is because there seems to be a proven pattern of some being sheltered from much of what happened at the Chapel.