Serpent seed teaching?

[DJ]

Can anyone shed light on the following verse,

NAS John 8:41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God."

What did the jews mean when they said we are not born of fornication?

Followers of William Branham believe this refers to Eve having sexual relation with the serpent(devil) in the garden.

What is the true meaning?

Also this verse

NAS 1 John 3:12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.

They take this literal also and teach Cain is the literal offspring of the devil.

Is there any clear way to prove Branham was not the prophet to come of Malachi4:5-6

I appreciate any insight.

In Christ

DJ

[Helen]

It is apparent from the context that the Jews in John 8 :41 are referring to their spiritual heritage and not their physical one ; because they are referring to God as their father here.  Any attempt to tie their meaning of “fornication” into a physical tie to Eve would have to make the same tie to God having sexual relations with her to justify this statement in John 8. 

It seems that likewise, their interpretation of I John 3:12 is dependent on their bias already referred to in John 8.

[Nomad]

Joh 8:40 "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Joh 8:41 "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God."

There are two possibilities:

1.  That they are claiming to be LEGITIMATE children of Abraham, both physically and spiritually, not spiritually illegitimate sons, as Christ was alleging.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus *said to them, "If you are Abraham’s children, do the deeds of Abraham.

Joh 8:44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [nature,] for he is a liar and the father of lies.

2.   "We were not born of fornication" may be an attack on Christ himself, as the illegitimate son of Mary.  Doubtless rumors of Christ's miraculous birth followed him, and it may have been suggested then, as it is now, that Mary and Joseph fornicated prior to being properly married. 

The Talmud speaks of Mary having been forced by a Roman soldier.  Thus Christ would be the bastard son of a rape.  It is not known if this was alleged at the time of Christ, however. 

It is possible that the Jews were saying both 1 and 2.  “We were not born of fornication – as the gentiles are, (and as you yourself are)…”

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1Jo 3:11  For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;

1Jo 3:12 not as Cain, [who] was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.

There is nothing in this verse to suggest that Cain was a literal son of Satan.  Jesus called the Jews, “…of your father the devil”.  He was, of course speaking spiritually, not literally.  Christ says that the devil was a murderer from the beginning, and that they were his “sons”, which they denied by word, but proved by deed.   

There is no scriptural evidence that angels and humans can copulate.  (Genesis 6 is not referring to angels copulating with human women.  We can discuss this matter further if you wish).
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Mal 4:5 "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.

Mal 4:6 "He will restore the hearts of the fathers to [their] children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse."

This verse refers, not to Wm. Branham, but to my cousin, Eli, who was involved in youth and family ministry.

Actually, I don’t have a cousin named Eli – but you see my point.  Anyone can make silly claims.  Wm. Branham didn’t fulfill the ministry of Mal. 4:5-6. 

His followers are simply deceived. 

[Helen]

The Old Testament frequently pictures the defection of the Jewish nation from God and anyone running after idols as fornication (II Chron.21:11, Isaiah 23:17 & Ezekiel 16:26 & 29).  We see the reference to the “seed of the adulterer and the whore” in Isaiah 57:3, implying to the Jews in that text; that they were born of idolatrous fornication.

3But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore.  4Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood.  5Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks?  6Among the smooth stones of the stream is thy portion; they, they are thy lot: even to them hast thou poured a drink offering, thou hast offered a meat offering. Should I receive comfort in these?  7Upon a lofty and high mountain hast thou set thy bed: even thither wentest thou up to offer sacrifice.  8Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it. Isaiah 57:3-8   KJV

I would think that Branhamites should take the historic Jewish point of reference into consideration.

[Bob Sackett]

Pretty well covered it Greg.

Bob

[DJ]

Thank you thats very helpful.