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Author Topic: Community Chapel's music was so bad...  (Read 5819 times)
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chapelchick
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2014, 01:59:57 AM »

This is the quote from the Amazon review of Barbara's book "The Truth Shall Set You Free"Initial post: Oct 18, 2010 12:09:31 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 18, 2010 12:11:12 PM PDT
D. Flach says:
What I can't understand from those of you who where there during the time DB was molesting us young girls, how is it that Barbara knew, and did nothing to protect me, or others!
Even while in their own home, she knew, and did nothing.
Years later I saw Barbara at her new home with her new love, and I thought " okay this is it's she'll apologize now" WRONG, still nothing.
Honestly I don't care, I'm healed from it all. What bothers me is you all who sing her praise. She was a victim as well, but she also caused many little ones to stumble. How do you make that all work?
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2014, 10:22:54 AM »

I find it a little bizarre being in the apparent position of defending a man who brought/allowed such pain, suffering and destruction to those who followed him. Believe me when I say I have no desire to defend him or anyone else that is guilty, unrepentant and continues in the debauched move of love. I have not heard a peep about COA for years now so I have no current information about the practices there.

I must still point out that as far as I know no legal charges have been brought against him by the authorities related to pedophilia. That would be public record if someone was inclined to search it out. I also am not aware of any civil suits/complaints alleging the same directed at him specifically as the one directly committing the crime. I cannot dismiss or confirm personal testimonies where I have no direct personal knowledge.

If you have misgivings about posting what you did it might be because that small still voice inside was squawking a little. I know that voice inside me and have come to have great respect for it as I have grown older because when I have ignored it I always regretted it. I had that voice squawking a lot when I first saw DB start to speak in 1977. I should have left and never looked back but such is wisdom. I will leave it stand for now but if you want it edited just ask.

I also have to consider there may be many who still need to vent and I don't want to thwart or interfere but making false charges and allegations will do nothing to deal effectively with being hurt though admittedly it may give some temporary release. Many including myself have vented on this board since 1998. Though the traffic has greatly slowed I keep it up and running just in case it can be of some value to someone at sometime but I don't want it to be a depository of false accusations against individuals.
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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
chapelchick
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« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2014, 10:54:13 PM »

Dear Gordy, I have misgivings in the sense that this is very personal information given on other forums which I have no right to spread. If you would like to edit please edit out the real names. Thank you. Chapelchick
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2014, 11:12:31 PM »

I edit out the name as I am uncomfortable invading someone's privacy although the person apparently went very public previously. If they contacted me and said it was OK to leave their name I would edit it back in. If it is still posted somewhere you are free to post a link to it.

I have come to the conclusion there are only two basic types of people in this world. The first type are those that want to control or have everyone controlled and the second group are those who have no desire to do so. These two groups are in evidence every where and it doesn't take long to determine which group people belong to if you simply listen to or read their words. I avoid the first group like the plague.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 11:17:05 PM by Gordy » Logged

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
manhammer
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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2014, 10:10:27 PM »

Can anyone at least share the records of who funded our all night, dance party church? All the my childhood friends at the church were working class at best. Who do we have the pleasure of thanking for providing us with such a  elegant place of worship? It seems that around 1983 Mr DB must have been given a large donation to fund a massive expansion.
I also would like to know how many of the children have died and what was their cause of death.
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Underdog
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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2014, 09:19:12 AM »

Tithes and offerings, along with an abundance of cheap and free labor.
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Jerry Coyne
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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2014, 10:32:29 AM »

There were many of volunteers which I have no issue with though he could argue why that was so. One thing I did appreciate about the financial part was there wasn't a constant plea for special tithes and offerings from the pulpit at least relative to many other churches or ministries.

There was a lawsuit from someone who received a large settlement from a horrific auto accident and gave a large portion of it to the church and later had misgivings about it. I don't recall how that ended. I remember the names involved but won't post them and would prefer nobody else does either. If someone can fill in other details please do so.
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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2014, 10:55:31 AM »

Gordy, my memory, or least my perspective is a little bit different than yours.

I remember constant appeals and admonitions regarding tithes and offerings.  (Granted, we didn't have a barrage of constant special appeals for various projects.)

Tithing was taught as a requirement, and offerings on top of tithes were also a near requirement.  There was also the guilt factor of suggesting things we (the Chapel) could have done if everyone had been tithing and giving.

At one point I received a letter from the church because they didn't have a record of me tithing.  I said that I gave cash.  I received another letter saying they hadn't seen any checks from me.   Angry

The one thing that stuck in my craw a bit, was how the little people were always being told that we were to sacrifice.  Meanwhile, some leadership was living quite the nice life.  (I don't begrudge people good salaries or lifestyles they have earned, but I do resent that lifestyle being lived off the backs of others' sacrifices.)

One of the things I saw at the Chapel, and had seen in my earlier history, is that when things start going bad, the leadership was quick to blame the people.  If the people would only give more, pray more, etc., these bad things wouldn't be happening.  Guilt and manipulation.

PS: Years after I left the Chapel I attended a church that was always doing special offerings, for a new grand piano, for more chairs, etc.  It got really tiresome.  I always figured these were expenses that should have been covered by the operating budget.
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« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2014, 07:03:16 PM »

That is different indeed! If I would have received a letter like those you described it would have been the last one they would have needed to send because I would have left. I gave liberally without regrets though the elaborate vacations/lovefests that became the norm after connections started would have caused me to hold back if I would have still been there. I had 3 kids in the school and gave more than enough to get the reduced tuition. I agreed with that policy because it wouldn't have been fair otherwise.

I was comparing the pleas for finances at the Chapel with other churches I have been in. It seems the sole reason many churches have services is to beg for money so they can afford to have more services to beg for money. Most TV ministries that have the Doo, pompadour and gold chain gang crowd running them are the same. As I recall there few services up until I left that mentioned giving from the pulpit. It was in the bulletins as one of the positions of the church. Money is important and a central issue in our lives. I run when I hear people claim they hate money or it isn't important as it is the warning sign of a looter sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.

The peer pressure was oppressive to me. I had nothing to hide or be ashamed of but I was always uncomfortable with the largely unstated but ever present expectations. If I would have been you with your experience about tithing which was stated and direct I would certainly have taken a different path.
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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
chapelchick
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« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 11:51:17 PM »

I remember the pressure to give a tithe, 10% and offering. This was to be done by check so that the church could track your giving. There were reprimands if you did not. The pressure was intense when the new sanctuary was being built. My husband and I gave 21 to 22 percent of our gross income to the church. He was in Bible college and we were always dirt poor. I had 50 dollars to buy 2 weeks of groceries at Prairie Market where you mark the prices on your food. We could not afford to shop at Safeway. I had to make sure that I did not go over because I only had a fifty dollar bill. That was to feed us both for 2 weeks, no more trips to the store. Any money "left over" was my spending money, haha.

We were admonished not to buy a house but to give the money to the church.

There were announcements in the church bulletin NOT to have home parties such as Tupperware parties because that would lead to impulsive spending and the money should go to the new sanctuary. Yet Don lived in a custom made home in Normandy Park.

So happy that everyone got to dance and slobber on each other at the expense of our young lives. I am just glad that I didn't stick around to see it all. Community Chapel to me was like the elusive vaginal orgasm. I never felt a thing. No spiritual elation, no joy. It was all fear. MY life began when I left this destructive cult and belief system behind me in the dust and ran like hell in the opposite direction.



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Helen
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« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 08:54:27 AM »

I was single all my years at the Chapel and I did not suffer under any financial pressure during my 10 years there.  It took me 5 1/2 years to get my college degree, but that is because I was supporting myself and had to work a 40 hour week.  Taking more than 10 hours of classes a week was just too tiring for me, because I was also involved in a lot of volunteer ministries.  As a single person, it was very nice how the different ministries enabled me to have more fellowship with such a tight schedule. 

I was able to keep my costs at a minimum by living in the dorms all through Bible College and giving a tithe and offering was very little problem for me.  I do not remember a lot of chastisement for not giving to the church, just received the usual teaching on giving.  I was blessed that my husband came from the same kind of financial teaching and we have continued to give to the Lord in this manner.

This is not to de-value any of the other experiences shared above, but I guess the reason I mention it is because there seems to be a proven pattern of some being sheltered from much of what happened at the Chapel. 
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Helen                         
          "Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
                 For if you do these things, you will never fall"
                      II Peter 1:10  NIV
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